His head inclined slightly. She didn't--? Well, he supposed that sort of answered one of his other questions. Halfway, anyway. He was still going to ask it. In the meantime, she moved on. His ears pinned -- what was such a creature that just speaking his name would summon him? And what sort of Creator was so fearsome that even his own creations would cower? He felt a pang of sympathy for her -- Tahi-shei believed her when she said that she had not known how fragile these Gembound would be.

"Believe me," he murmured, "I know. You never know who is listening -- and you never know just who you can trust." His ear flicked and he looked askance. "... I have an idea, though, of someone I might be able to speak to. Assuming I tread lightly and test the waters first." He nearly laughed at his own joke. Tenzin has always struck me as kind, especially if Pride gets along with him -- maybe he's a little more discerning. Astraea told me a while ago that it was probably safe to ask him questions.

Not that he'd go right out of the gate, naturally, but he filed it away. Perhaps he could bite his tongue and ask the Collector, too, but he was slimy and Tahi-shei was sure he'd pass along the information to the highest bidder at the first opportunity.

One of his ears flicked. "-You say you don’t force others, but neither do you make it easy for them to leave, Mother." He recalled back to the Raid, even though she could not hear his thoughts. "I wanted to leave your control, on some level, and I couldn’t. I felt sick at the thought, like a child who was about to be punished. Your influence made me lie to my friend, made me try to infect her; just because you don’t lie to them doesn’t mean you aren’t controlling them. You know how your influence can be purged; if you really wanted to make it easy for people to leave, for people to make the choice, why did you have Aethereal lie to me and flee when you knew I was going to try and cleanse her? The Gembound you took after the Raid, they had families — or, at least, the dragons did. They were dedicated to those families, and they loved them, but then they left them behind in favor of following you. I have a family, Mother, and I struggle to believe that anyone would leave theirs of their own volition." He paused, recalling Aristotle. "Well, nobody who was of sound mind." None of this was said with accusation, however. Instead, gentle curiosity, and an edge of softening -- he wanted her to explain herself, but she wouldn't have had to be very perceptive to note that he seemed to be warming up to her.

Tahi-shei gave a moment's pause, and then continued, as if having just recalled something. "Furthermore, I have been told of Canis. If the Leviathan is to be believed, the bones of Canis were from rebels and defective designs — I know what happens, then, when one rebels against chaos. What happens when one rebels against Order? Are they even able to? What happens if someone will not submit to its control?"

Neither do you make it easy for them to leave. "I held no control... over those at this battle. It may have been... my guardian. It was... stone. It did not react... how I had expected. I did not hold... a true link to its mind. I do not think it... infected you by choice. As for... my beckoning. As I said... I cannot remove it," the Gray explained, slowly. "But you speak... of Aethereal. You can... answer this... I think, yourself... You had chosen... to make yourself enemy. She was hatched... into my world. An accident... but a happy one... we were family. I knew what... would happen to her... and it did. You took her... away. I am surprised... she has not returned. Has she not... spoken of me? Did she not... wish to... return?"

The Gray paused, working its mouth. Its little flanks were heaving, and it skittered away, digging at the snow, stuffing a mouthful in. For a long, silent moment it melted snow and ate it, cooling, soothing its mouth. Then it turned back, and spoke again.

"Is she... harmed? You did not... kill her..?" and here the Gray studied Tahi-shei perhaps a little too closely--as did every insectoid face in the room.

"I will not speak of... those who have joined my family... or have not. This would... possibly endanger them. But I can tell you... that you are... incorrect, in your assumptions."

"As for... control," the rat continued, still staring, whiskers twitching, "I care... nothing for it... You can answer this, as well... I told you that their wills, become my own. But you say... you did not wish it?" The voice sounded almost puzzled.

"When those of my wayward children... are brought to my fold... I struggle to bring them... joy. But you did not... feel joy? Did you not feel... welcome? Warmth?" The confusion in the rat's tone, though more blank than the expressiveness of a true sentient being, was still clear, still growing.

The voice paused. Insectoid pincers raised again to stroke immense mandibles.

"...What did you feel..?" the rat Echoed at last, and all eyes remained on Tahi-shei.

@Tahi-shei

He shook his head. "Aethereal is alive, and unharmed, as far as I know. When she learned of our assault, she wanted to warn you -- she nearly did. But my partner had taken her to meet Vargas; she was told that, should she return to your embrace, should she give you warning, he would kill my partner. He swore it." His eyes were blank, but his voice was like flint. "She has a good heart; I doubt that she fears my wrath. But she should. I protect my family just as you protect yours." He recalled the Dragonbats -- how he had died screaming. How James had come running for him, desperate and there for him when he woke. I don't know what I'd do without you, he thought warmly, and returned his attention to her.

He paused, and gave a hesitant nod. "I did, when I was infected. But I still knew that something was wrong." Tahi-shei reflected on how he had felt at that Raid. "... I felt the Master resisting you. I felt... horrified. It was appalling to me that someone would give up what you had given them -- I couldn't stop thinking about how he had hurt a friend of mine." Tahi-shei paused. "... Well. I think so, anyway. And we aren't really friends, but-- never mind. I felt... panic, on some level. I knew that these spores were good, were kind, but I also knew that just moments before I'd been worried they were flesh-eating or mind-altering, like mine can be." His ears pinned. "Then... Astraea was there, telling us to resist your touch. He told one of my friends to help me -- he called me by name."

He looked down, trying to remember. "But I felt like... like I wanted to tell him this was good. I felt like I needed to listen to you, with enough force that it made me nauseous. I wanted the sick-bad-awful feeling to go away, and I didn't know how to make it happen. Astraea wasn't helping me, and my-- a friend of mine -- was helping the Master instead. I felt betrayed, in a way. Childish of me. Silly." He sighed. "I felt as though I needed to share my 'gift' with another dear friend of mine. She managed to fight it -- to escape, and be cleansed. She threatened me -- made me follow her, made me keep my distance. She demanded that I cleanse myself -- you persuaded me to only take away a little. You told me to lie to her, to protect myself and my connection with you above all else. Or... at least, that's what it felt like I needed to do. She killed me, then, and I felt terrified that I would lose you. But as my Stone took me, I could feel the fungus being pushed from me."

Tahi-shei's voice was slightly hoarse. "I thanked her. And when I woke up, I hated you. It had felt nice, then -- warm, happy. Like a family. But in my right mind, I knew that I had been manipulated. She was right to do it -- and I'd have done the same to myself, if you'd touched me during our Assault, even if you likely would have taken my chrysalis, too. I'd have kept doing it a million times over, if I had half the mind to. The idea of being taken terrified me, viscerally. I understood, when I woke, why that creature had been clawing at his own flesh in his desperation to be free of you -- my mind had been taken. It was... nice, then. Warm. But when I woke up, all I felt was cold."

Perhaps it would be hard for her to hear -- he knew it would have been hard for Genevive or Varik or Pardhi to look him in the eye and tell him that they were terrified of him, disgusted. He couldn't help but dip his head slightly, answering one of her earlier half-questions -- "We are... creatures of chaos, even if you did not want us to be. Your magic feels wrong in our bodies, on some level -- and you take the form of insects, white mold, and ice. These things, in many of our minds, connote plague -- famine, pestilence, and frigid, endless winter." Tahi-shei raised his head, the sympathetic look in his eyes hidden by the Crown's curse but the tone no less evident in his voice.

"Even if you do not wish them ill, Mother, even if their goals and priorities become yours... if they cannot choose, if they cannot have their own will, it is control. The Masters will kill us if we step out of line, but your children, no matter how beloved, do not even have the chance to consider it."

He sighed. "Which, in many ways, brings me to my next question. Even if we did manage to destroy all of the Chaos — and I have no idea how we could manage that in the first place — what would happen then? Our magic is chaos, is it not? There are sources of it in these caves. Would you have us kill those who are already touched by it? Somehow destroy the Black Spire and the Dark Altar in Tunnel K?" He knew of it, vaguely. He had never been there, could not have navigated to it, but it had been mentioned to him offhand once or twice. The Voidmother had told him that she had spoken to Chaos Incarnate, once. "I have heard whispers that the House of Chaos can be spoken to in communion with these places. What happens if other Masters somehow come to these Caves, if the Valkhound Isra's 'guests' ever arrive? How would you plan to keep your children safe? How do you expect me or any of us to fight Masters when a blizzard and a big worm was able to stop us? Lessers and an army of untrained children cannot hope to match up to a Master's power -- I doubt even the overwhelming force of the Raid could have put a dent in one." Once again, there wasn't any accusation in his tone.

Tahi-shei was a smart stag. He wanted -- no, needed -- all the facts before he made his decision. He just hoped she wouldn't kill him or kick him out first.

There was a silence, this time--a silence broken only by the ringing of Tahi-shei's voice through the room, and the quiet touch of teeth on snow as the Echoing Gray gnawed a little more to soothe its mouth and throat.

The head of the massive insectoid creature--crown-topped and silent--tilted this way and that, though, as Tahi-shei spoke. Fractional, thoughtful twitches; little gestures of concentration. Of consideration.

When at last he finished, when at last the Gray turned toward him to speak, the voice that echoed Mother came almost hesitant. There was a sense, in the tone--as mimicked as it was--that she was uncertain, but also thoughtful, even hopeful. Each word was quieter, spoken more slowly, as if each were being more considered. Before, she had been granting information. Now, Tahi-shei appeared to have her questioning things.

"I am glad my child... is well. I am not glad that she is... a hostage. A prisoner. Or that her life... holds others hostage, too." There was quiet, for a beat, the click of both mandibles and rodent teeth in twinned thoughtfulness. Each insectoid head in the room jerked slightly toward the rat, then looked back to Tahi as it again began to speak. "Those touched by... my patron's creation--I try to extend... the warmth. The good will. I have had... no way to f-ree them; I... thought to... at least make them happy."

Whiskers twitched. The silence stretched. The crowned head tipped downward, just a fraction.

"But you say you... felt compelled. Manip-ulated. Betrayed. When they are taken... from me, they are lost... to me. Some return... come back, seeking... my love. But no one has... told me of a fee-eeling... of hatred. Or--disgust." This word was empty, hollow. There was nothing in it, a whisper of a sound and nothing more. "I admit the... idea is new... to me. Alien... but unexpected. I... suppose those in my family... do not feel that way... and if they leave, I... do not hear from them again. I did not know." The voice paused; mandibles brushed over one another slowly, thoughtfully. "...But you say you can... return to stone? That your stone... removes m-my link? That is... hopeful, then. It means I can... offer a choice. I will need to... learn how. Perhaps this is another... way," and here the faint hope factored in.

Again the silence stretched; the quiet drip of water somewhere in the cave broke it, this time, as the insectoid shapes remained wholly still. "I will remember... this. As for.. destroying Chaos. That is not... why I was sent here. I was... sent to monitor. If I could do it... I would. They bring... only destruction. That is... his essence... his nature. To lash out... blindly... and des-stroy all he touches. But I do not... think your magic is chaos. I do not... know, for certain. I know that... I reached out; and you... began to be reborn. Was it... my magic, alone? Is it... resonance, with something... in these caves? Yours is not... his. You would know... if it was. But it is not... purely mine, either," she admitted, through the rat. "I do not think... destroying the black stone places... would k-kill you. I do not ask you... to fight the House's Masters. I have no answers... for you. Perhaps if all... the creatures of this nest... bound together; then they could... win freedom. But you will never... destroy all the Chaos... that burns away wo-orlds... full of life. That... is my patron's task... and not ours."

The rat briefly choked--coughed--and again struggled to eat more snow. The Hive creatures turned to gaze upon it, and the rat spoke again: "I believe... Sam is growing... weary. We may need to... part ways... soon. I have no way to... speak to you, as I do with... my family. Mind-to-mind. Do you have any... other questions... before we part?"

@Tahi-shei

Tahi-shei flicked an ear. It was time, he believed, to voice an opinion he had held for some time now -- an opinion that he had not expressed aloud to anyone else, not even James (though he'd been privy to it via their link). "I do not think that Order and Chaos are opposites. I think that is where your patron--" and notably, he said her patron and not her, as if he was giving her a break, "and the Masters are both wrong. There is chaos in order — our designs might be those of “natural” creatures as you say, and occasionally predictable, but there is no way of telling what stone, shape, or magic we will hold. There is no telling how we will act, think, feel, or behave. Some of us are impaired by our stones or our magic; some of us are desperate to be free of them. There is chaos in creation — when a child is born, it takes aspects of both its parents and any of their ancestors at random. This is chaos. Some of us are born in totally foreign shapes -- monstrosities, horrors, and creatures totally alien." He thought of Temperantia, the Queen, Attikias, and so on.

"And in the same vein, he continued, "there is order in chaos. Master Vargas is a thing of order — there can be no hierarchy, no Master, no ruler or Overseer, without some semblance of order. Even if that order is achieved through violence and terror, it is still order -- it is still control. It is still cooperation, as you said. An army cooperates, and soldiers must learn and be trained; this cannot happen without order."

He glanced around the chamber once more, but figured finally that there were no other ears in here besides hers. "I haven’t said this to anyone, not aloud, but I am rather of the opinion that order and chaos are not enemies like everyone seems to think they are. I think they are linked, different colors in the same stone — the House of Chaos, the Creator, who is said to Create as you claim to have, and Dontacael, whom I know very little about. They seek to destroy each other, but how can you truly purge the world of either? If we destroy every bit of chaos, then all we have is stagnation and stillness. If we destroy every last bit of order, all we have is suffering and blind hatred."

However, her question came, and he felt a bit of pity for the poor Gray. Tahi-shei straightened himself and, with a bit of sympathy in his tone, said, "Only one more, I suppose. Only one that is especially pressing." It burned in his mind -- and, as was the nature with him, was going to come with something of a speech. "Simply put, Mother, why me? You have other willing soldiers, Gembound who serve under you already. You have your Hive, your other children, all around you. Your words are alluring, but you and I are enemies; you have killed me, I have tried to kill you. I swore to you once that I would hunt you down and destroy you given any opportunity; then, when we fail in our assault and retreat to lick our wounds, you approach me when I am alone and ask me to meet you so that you can offer me a place as your… Harbinger? I remember you offering this before, at the Raid — but tell me, what is a Harbinger? What would my responsibilities be? My powers?" Tahi-shei felt a pulse of shame, but he felt that he needed to reveal something of his hand to her here.

"You have said that you do not know me well. That is alright. I will tell you. I try to be kind, good, righteous -- I try to protect people. But the truth is, Mother, I am a greedy, arrogant, and curious coward of a creature. I’ve sold my morals and my soul more than once for the promise of power, both to the Masters and to the Collector. The promise of answers. I want to know everything -- that has always been my goal. I want to see everything, and become powerful on the basis of that knowledge. The Masters, they know so much more than I’ve been told — I have been told to seek these answers for myself. If I allied myself with you, these Masters, they would hunt me down. They would kill me and they would kill my family, without hesitation. My only option would be to bring them here to you and hide in the snow for... as long as it takes for a Master to forget. Yet if I cower beneath Chaos, I may be able to move up -- I recognize that these promises are lies, Mother. I believe you. But as is the nature of children, I wish to believe that I am special. I am grateful for what you have told me, and I am glad to have heard it, but Mother, you must answer me this — what can you give me that Chaos can’t? Because if there isn’t anything more than love and a title, all you will be making of me is a lamb to slaughter."

There was... something like sorrow in his tone. Tahi-shei wanted to follow her promises of love, of freedom, of peace. He did not want children to be raised like soldiers and held in desperate fear. He did not want to follow under Vargas and be torn apart by chaos. But Vargas would tear him apart if he went with her.

The Gray spoke more haltingly, once Tahi-shei had finished. Its little flanks heaved more rapidly, and it was clear that the continued speech inflicted suffering. They were creatures meant to give out brief calls as lures or bluffs--not to continue long conversation for many minutes on end. The insectoid at the room's center eyed it, as it spoke.

"I will need to... make this more brief." Both heads swivelled again to watch Tahi-shei. "I will state... bluntly... that you are wrong in your claim... that chaos and order... are not opposites. But that... is to guide you to... new understanding. Yes... the House of Chaos... must inflict order... for his Nest to get... anything d-done. It means that... his pure Chaos... is not enough. I do not know much... of this Vargas... but I have seen that its... m-magic... is not Chaotic. I wonder... why t-that is. If the House knows... that Chaos alone... is incapable." The big, cloak-wrapped creature shifted in place. "What you... mean, I think... is th-that you see more... potential in a middle-ground. And perhaps... for your kind... you are correct. I do not... know. As I have said, your... creation... was accidental. Your... life... it is new. You are not pure... Ord-der. You are not p-pure Chaos. You are, as you say... something... between. My magic... in the Nest of the House. An accident... a new thing... we did not imagine occurring. Understand... that until now... all living beings have be-een... Orderly. Or chaotic. Your winged serpent... or us. There has been... no middle-ground."

She paused in her puppetting, the rat dropping to all fours, panting. It was given a moment to recover, to munch its snow.

"I would suggest... if you are asking.. what you would do..? Perhaps... as a Harbinger... if you chose that... path. You could help your... people... find that middle ground. With f-family, but not--perhaps--truly... Ordered. Unpredictable... but not truly... chaotic. If they wish... to leave afterward... I would not st-stop them. Control... is not my desire." Mandibles clicked together, as if thoughtful. "I would... lend my s-support. I am not helpless... but I am... n-not here for conflict. But should... conflict become necessary... we are c-capable. If we see an... opp-pportunity... to destroy His creations... we will. You... are not his creation. Aethereal... was, but she... was different. She came... to us. Who knows... how she has been changed? We do... not."

Again, a shift in the small space. Again, long incisors gnawed at snow. Whiskers trembled.

"But you ask... why you. And you ask... what I offer. I will... start... by reminding... that I ask nothing, unless... you wished to join us. I spoke... to you, because you... attempted to lead your... people. When no others... did. I spoke to you... because you knew my patron's... name... and of my existence. You harbored... hatred... not truly your own... You were tricked." The insect tilted its great head. "I--we--thought that... you... our children... deserved the truth, if you... were to risk your... lives in war. If I had wanted... to cause any of you harm... I would have. If I had... truly wanted to take... all of you over, it would... have been simple. But that is a lie... you have been told, and it is... not what I do. I have only... sought to welcome... those who have joined with our Family... deliberately, or n-not." Again she paused in her speech, the rat coughing briefly. "Perhaps I would... ask... for you to simply... tell my side of things. Tell my children that... Chaos does not... love them. And it... never will. Chaos does not... understand love." The click of mandibles was sharper this time. Disdainful, almost a gunshot report. "But I do not ask... you to put yourself... in danger. If you chose to come to me... one day..."

A pause. Thought. Mandibles tilted skyward for a moment, and then back to Tahi-shei, insectoid eyes scrutizing him.

"Chaos... has left you with little choice. S-serve, or die. I offer you... what protection I can, if you choose... to live here. With... or without... my embrace. Th-though I warn you that I c-cannot... protect as well... I would not know where you were... without it. I tried to... protect Aethereal... but she had left... my chosen sphere... of influence. I was... too late. And now... Chaos has claimed her." There was quiet, for a moment, silence, a stare, perhaps regret. It was hard to tell, with only insect eyes staring at him. "Here... as you have seen... I hold... more power. You will not find... your Masters here. They will not... risk themselves, I think."

"But a Harbinger... would spread my word. Would... gather others... to fight against Chaos. To earn... safety for themselves. A Harbinger would... be beneath my protection... here. Live in my nest... a home where they see fit. They... would choose. You may ask... Aethereal, if you... wish it... of how I treated her. Of how... she was my guest... and not a prisoner. Not... a slave. That is... subversion; that is... Chaos. But I do not... ask you... I do not... want you... to sell... your--soul? I want... those who would love family. I want... those who would rid... this place, at least... of Chaos. Or at least... hide away... and not aid it... if war comes."

The great insect seemed to gather itself, and pushed through the Gray one final speech. "Perhaps... if we and your kind... my children... work together. We may rid this nest... of His influence once... and for all. And forge... for the both of us... a greater world. I would... remain in Ursa... but the caves... would be yours to take. I do not think... the House of Chaos... cares enough... about His creations to even... lift a claw to save them. I offer you... a hope... for a better future. For... freedom from Chaos... and even true Order. And meanwhile... protection... in Ursa; and all the... knowledge... that my family knows, shared with you. That... is my promise. Perhaps... one day... you will consider it; but until then... I only want... you to know the truth. That w-we are not enemy. You are... my children, and you are... loved, and pitied." Crystalline eyes flashed with dim reflection as the insect's head turned to regard the Gray. "And now, I think... I have not been brief, after all, and Sam... cannot handle more."

@Tahi-shei

Tahi-shei bowed his head when she -- the rat -- finally finished. "You have shown me more kindness than I think I am due, Mother; I thank you sincerely. I will need to... to think, I believe, on all of this. Weigh my options in depth, perhaps find someone to whom I can ask more questions without risking my own safety." He sighed and raised his chin again, taking a guess as to where her eyes were. "Whatever the case, I will deliver to you my decision, once I have made it. I know where to find you, and where to find your spies, if I feel that I must."

He cleared his throat. "In the meantime -- I would ask that you let it be known to your children, at least those who come to you newly, that there are ways to be rid of you, if they so desire, and that you would not be upset with them if they took that path. Cleansing via simple Fungal magic, which I would be happy to provide or teach them, or a return to their stone. I do not know if there is a limit to when they can be cleansed -- I know that when tasting chaos, eventually one reaches the point of no return. I've no idea if your magic is the same."

Tahi-shei turned his head towards the exit. "Let Sam rest, for now; I think that I have had my fill. I thank you once again, Mother, and I am ready to take my leave." If and when one of Mother's insects came to join him, Tahi-shei would give a last glance towards Mother (for her benefit more than his) and then begin the treacherous climb back into the snow.

/exit tahi-shei unless stopped(?)

"I thank you... for listening. It took... trust... that the House of Chaos have... tried to twist into hatred. Please do not... tell others where I dwell... but we are here if you... have need of us." There was a pause--both a click of mandibles and a rasping inhale from the rat. "...I venture to say... if-ffff you are attacked... by His forces... you may seek refuge here."

"As for... my other children... I know now about the Stones. I will... tell them of this... when they come. I do not know... either... if there is such a point. Your kind is... new to us."

There was another click, and the central creature gestured to one of those in the back; a Cleaner stepped forth, only a little more than half the length and with a head dipping in what seemed like acknowledgment. It skittered slowly past Tahi-shei and into the tunnels.

Sam's voice echoed down the tunnel as the deer departed.

"Avoid His eye... Tahi-shei... whatever else you do. Your kind... are not his children. And even... his own children... do not matter to him."

There was no last minute strike, no ambush; the Cleaner would simply trot on out, navigating the labyrinth of tunnels with little issue. It did seem do pause or double on its own path here and there--undoubtedly it would be difficult, though not impossible, to replicate the route without some unseen method. But the Cleaner eventually made it clear, and stepped aside: once again at the Drowned Forest, and now leaving Tahi-shei to his freedom--and his choice.

@Tahi-shei